Curse

Aba · Oct 06, 2010, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

So, help me out. What should I add to the original post in this thread so that it can sort of sum up the majority of what we've heard/discussed?

A large amount of new players and some old ones, feel that the game is to difficult and want more heros to do everything for them.

So to sum up the majority......
" Me Buy game."
"Me Think game needs change, cause, Me say so."
"Me no need to give reasons cause, Everyone agrees with ME"
"Me paying customer,Me want change now,Where my change??"

Xenomortis · Oct 06, 2010, 09:13 AM // 09:13

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Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Its more challenging and exciting to get power creep, which seems to be the way Anet wants to go.

It also kills the game. As unfun it may seem, as horrible as it may be and as unnecessary it may look, it is a necessary step if the PvE game is to remain healthy. Constant power creep destroys any reward structure the game may have (this is basically what's happened to Guild Wars PvE). One does not help a broken game by breaking it further.

PvE players are typically opposed to nerfs and any sense of PvE balance. There are essentially two types of PvE player; more casual ones just looking to play the game and have fun and the more dedicated title grinder or farmer. Any nerf that affects the casual player scales down their power output and sets them back in character development, anything that doesn't affect them they either don't notice or don't care about but they will generally not appreciate why they're necessary. For more dedicated players looking to simply grind titles and achievements, nerfs slow them down and they'll vehemently attack the nerfs and defend the old builds they used.
But if constant power creep is all you get, then all sense of achievement and reward is utterly destroyed.

NerfHerder · Oct 06, 2010, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

It also kills the game. As unfun it may seem, as horrible as it may be and as unnecessary it may look, it is a necessary step if the PvE game is to remain healthy. Constant power creep destroys any reward structure the game may have (this is basically what's happened to Guild Wars PvE). One does not help a broken game by breaking it further......

You have a valid point and I agree, mostly. Yes, some nerfing improves the overall balance of the game and keeps HM end game content challenging. Power creep, unchecked, makes the game too easy.

But, throwing the nerf bat at alot of the skills is just as bad as buffing them. Ultimately its a yin and yang of buffs and nerfs that helps balance. You cant really pick one or the other. In a game with as many skill combinations to balance as GW has, it will always be broken and always need constant skill updates. I like that the game is "broken". Balanced never changing skills would be too boring to play for 5 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

A large amount of new players and some old ones, feel that the game is to difficult and want more heros to do everything for them.

So to sum up the majority......
" Me Buy game."
"Me Think game needs change, cause, Me say so."
"Me no need to give reasons cause, Everyone agrees with ME"
"Me paying customer,Me want change now,Where my change??"

I'll take a hefty monster buff with my full hero party, please! I dont mind if they make the game harder(I encourage it), I just want 7 goram heros!

Why do I want them? Personal preference, playstyle, convenience, new build possibilities, henchies suck, and well... I got'em, might as well use'em. Oh, and if could have 6 heros out at once, I just might find that froggy scepter I used on a hero and cant find now.

Xiaquin · Oct 06, 2010, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

I'll take a hefty monster buff with my full hero party, please! I dont mind if they make the game harder(I encourage it), I just want 7 goram heros!

They can't make a lot of content harder because two campaigns don't natively have them. And I'll take nerfs to power creep, not buffs to monsters. All an enemy buff accomplishes is further dependency on said power creep.

Aba · Oct 06, 2010, 06:10 PM // 18:10

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I'll take a hefty monster buff with my full hero party, please! I dont mind if they make the game harder(I encourage it), I just want 7 goram heros!

This I can agree with, give the bad players 7 heros if you need Anet, just make the rest of the PvE more hard. (maybe All mobs are turned into WiK type Mobs)
Ya this game is old it needs change, I can agree with people on that, but dumbing it down and making it more a cake walk is not the way to go.
Make it more difficult Anet youll get more fans of that, then making it more of a heroway Autopilot.

ANYWAYS lets turn this topic away from 7 heros jokefest thats going on and disscuss this new little info from Guildwars.com

Quote:

the next chapter in Guild Wars Beyond, “Crisis in Cantha”—it’s not really named this…at least not yet.

Hmmmmm Gw:B Work In Cantha

Cant wait

bhavv · Oct 06, 2010, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

ANYWAYS lets turn this topic away from 7 heros jokefest thats going on and disscuss this new little info from Guildwars.com

Even if it never ends up happening, I still maintain my opinion that I cant wait for the *possibility* of it coming to GW.

The discussion is going to be completely unavoidable if it has been mentioned by even just one person working at Anet, as far over 75% of the people playing GW1 want it to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Not sure why anyone would want to turn GW into Dragon Age as opposed to actually playing an offline RPG and saving bandwidth.

Because those people still find GW better to play than Dragon Age maybe.

I would fully support an offline single player version of GW with 7 heroes anyday.

I dont play games, online or offline to play with other players, I play them because they are games and meant to be fun and enjoyable.

The only time I play with other players is when I am playing against them in PVP. If its just fighting monsters and AI, then other people serve absolutely no required purpose.

Aba · Oct 06, 2010, 08:31 PM // 20:31

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The discussion is going to be completely unavoidable if it has been mentioned by even just one person working at Anet, as far over 75% of the people playing GW1 want it to happen.

well dunno where you pulled 75% of players want autopilot pve with 7 Heros.
Damn near every player in game if talked to about this laughed there face of........did u get this 75% from people in pre searing or shing jea island?
Say what you guys want but I just see it as lazyness and being bad at the game. Most players that think this is a good idea are one of the two or both.
My 2cents. So have fun dreaming all!

Lanier · Oct 06, 2010, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

well dunno where you pulled 75% of players want autopilot pve with 7 Heros.
Damn near every player in game if talked to about this laughed there face of........did u get this 75% from people in pre searing or shing jea island?
Say what you guys want but I just see it as lazyness and being bad at the game. Most players that think this is a good idea are one of the two or both.
My 2cents. So have fun dreaming all!

Maybe not 75% on the mark but a vast majority of the replies that i have seen want 7 heroes.

Why do you automatically assume that most people want 7 hero teams because it would make the game easier? There are so many reasons why 7 hero teams would be desireable that you should stop automatically assuming the motives behind people's opinions regarding this issue.

plus, the fact that anet put the 7 hero topic on the survey shows that they are considering the possibility. You make it sound like it is a dream, and nothing more.

Mintha Syl · Oct 06, 2010, 09:44 PM // 21:44

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Originally Posted by Aba

ROFL.you people need to learn how to read .......
NO WHERE IN THIS THREAD WAS IT SAYD HEROS ARE COMING......
it was only said that one person working on GW:b is open to it...
THATS IT THATS ALL...

Nowhere in this thread but in others. You really should learn to read and also not to use caps.
And for you to know, always cause you don't read, mods said to keep 7 heores discussions to this thread, so obviously it becomes a spot for it while there's many other and more updated threads about gw:b

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Oct 06, 2010, 09:46 PM // 21:46

few points:

i now doubt they add full hero teams, as they want the game more challenging and we have oppressor weapons in HoM now... or they just replaced 7 hero idea with this update

then the game wont be broken because its easy to alot, same with the so called (evil imo) ingame economy

and the game being killed if they give us full hero party? i doubt it

also a note: "a huge lot of people got sick of nerfs/challenging-way-with-skills and left the game cuz of that, dunno if it will balance the game, unless everyone leaves, then nothing will be overpowered"

now that been said, i hope people will see if from that point of view
the point is: people leave the game if they have to remake builds over and over and over again

if you dont understand that, you dont hear much from people ingame, i think

7 heroes lazyness? nah, its just adding more fun, maybe more help in my personal case, but in general its just about more fun, and less pugs

EDIT:

oh and i understand about balancing, but i dont see much of balance
most skills either become less good or they stay too strong, some skills are fine, yet people dont like them, so say they should get nerfed
or anet changes em

MithranArkanere · Oct 06, 2010, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Hm... all sounds interesting.

All the 'missing' heroes go as follows:
From the core professions:
- 1 mesmer, so we can have 3.
- 1 elementalist, so we can one set with gear for each element.
- 2 warriors, so we can have a hammer warrior, and then 4 with all the possible combinations of strength or tactics shields, and sword or shield.

From the rest of the professions, we are missing:
- 1 Ritualist to make 3.
- 1 Assassin to make 3.
- 1 paragon to make 3.

So, from all of those... a new hero would have to be... either ritualist or mesmer, since after elementalists they are the most versatile of them all, and you can always have one more. We already have 3 elementalists, so the fourth one can wait.
For the rest, it's not really that important to get the 'missing' ones.

I wish we got a Mesmer Tengu or Dredge Ritualist.
If the new content about Cantha showed the huge tunnel dredge used to get to Cantha (by recycling the echovald-looking dungeons, for example) we could see that, and the new hero could be a Dredge.
New areas would be really hard to come by, unlike Prophecies. In Cantha there few areas only one area you cannot visit unless it is on a mission: Vizunah Square, Inner SAnctum, the Challenges, and that's mostly all.

As for 7 heroes, I already gave my opinion in the survey: I'm fine with it after they release GW2.
For now, and thanks to Steam, there are enough players to find parties in Zaishen missions.

bhavv · Oct 06, 2010, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

well dunno where you pulled 75% of players want autopilot pve with 7 Heros.
Damn near every player in game if talked to about this laughed there face of........did u get this 75% from people in pre searing or shing jea island?
Say what you guys want but I just see it as lazyness and being bad at the game. Most players that think this is a good idea are one of the two or both.
My 2cents. So have fun dreaming all!

There was a poll ages ago which saw around 85% of people voting wanting 7 heroes. Every high end PVE guild I have been in before have had just about everyone wanting 7 heroes - these being HM guilds / alliances that could manage anything in the game together without breaking a sweat.

Using 7 heroes isnt any more of an auto pilot than playing in a good group, with 3 heroes / 4 hench, or 2 people, 6 heroes, so I dont understand your irrational argument at all.

Most players who actually want 7 heroes in the game are far better players than the rubbish noobs who like to pug with a useless skill bar.

The only reason why this game is harder when pugging is because players are bad, not because heroes are any better (they arent).

An 8 human player team should always be 10x better than a 7 hero team if all the players know what they are doing, but that is rarely ever the case. I dont like failing at games due to other players being bad, I much prefer to play on my own and learn myself rather than having to rely on others.

I've played GW PVE entirely Solo for the vast majority of my time spent playing the game. The one thing that I dislike the most is having to run specific builds centred around what works well with the henchmen available. There is very little room for experimentation and fun when you have to bring along 4 henchmen with fixed skill bars.

Aba · Oct 06, 2010, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Nowhere in this thread but in others. You really should learn to read and also not to use caps.
And for you to know, always cause you don't read, mods said to keep 7 heores discussions to this thread, so obviously it becomes a spot for it while there's many other and more updated threads about gw:b

Please enlighten us with all these threads where anet staff stated we are getting 7 heros please...
I read fine, apperently you dont listen or read well, cause if you did youd know what was said.
And ya this is the thread to disscuss autopilot/7 heros, but its also for GW:b.
I was only trying to change the topic from something that has been beaten to a pulp.
and caps?? really....???

your a riot.Must be in Bond ally.

Quote:

Why do you automatically assume that most people want 7 hero teams because it would make the game easier? There are so many reasons why 7 hero teams would be desirable that you should stop automatically assuming the motives behind people's opinions regarding this issue.

Welll seeing that everyone else assumes everything in this forum im going to as well

But w.e call me a fool and a idiot, but i think any GW player that needs or wants is having problems with PvE . but thats my 2 cents, your entitled to yours im entitled to mine. I, like the people I HAVE TALKED TO, want a harder game not a game where its essentially auto pilot with 7 heros with more efficient builds.I mean PvE is very much a cake walk right now so what will 7 heros do but dumb it down........and some of you guys refuse to see that. Yes I agree it will be cool to screw with the bars and combos you can come up with. But when you do that your basically looking for the best bars that have good synergy and kill the fastest which----> makes its faster---->easier-----> and less work on your part. (Easier)

Quote:

I actually did try typing LFG for one of the ebon vanguard quests just to see what would happen. No one was interested, no player groups were forming at all for any missions. In fact the only thing that people were grouping together for was for paid HM speed clears, or runs to other outposts.

and what you new players fail to realize (dunno if you are one but im saying to everyone) That we all did it before you with heros and henchies, why should your experience be any different?
whats stopping you from using henchies????? we all did........they work fine.So using the old....PUG is dead thing doesnt fit for me. heros and henchies are fine right now what is stopping your from doing that

love you all.....Kisses

bhavv · Oct 06, 2010, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

but i think any GW player that needs or wants this should go play another game.

Why should we? I've been playing the game since a couple of months after prophecies launched, and everything except for high end PVE has always been fully soloable and thats how I've played.

The game was designed that way from the start to be able to play solo if you cant find a full group. And in the last few days that I've been playing again, I'm seeing around a quarter of the number of players around in popular EOTN outposts.

I actually did try typing LFG for one of the ebon vanguard quests just to see what would happen. No one was interested, no player groups were forming at all for any missions. In fact the only thing that people were grouping together for was for paid HM speed clears, or runs to other outposts.

Playing with H/H, or if ever implemented 7 heroes, is no where near as lazy than paying people for speed clearing missions or runs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

and what you new players fail to realize (dunno if you are one but im saying to everyone) That we all did it before you with heros and henchies, why should your experience be any different?

Ummm, new players???

People wanting 7 heroes are mostly old players that have been playing the game for many many years now and are bored of it. This has been a major request wanted by the majority of PVE players ever since Nightfall was released.

I've already finished the game across multiple characters with H/H and am completely bored. However, 7 heroes would be very fun and interesteing to play around with my fully customised party.

Theres nothing wrong with giving players a better gaming experience. That Anet have flatly refused to allow 7 hero parties at the expense of gaming enjoyment and fun for the majority of players that would enjoy it immensely is pretty lame for a company hat is meant to be making their game as fun and enjoyable to everyone playing it as it possibly can be.

People have been playing without any heroes or henchmen and purely through pugging alone before and after heroes, so why dont you play purely by pug if thats what you want? I dont pug because people that do like to pug are usually absolutely terrible at the game and I decided many years ago not to play with them anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

Please enlighten us with all these threads where anet staff stated we are getting 7 heros please...

Its not something that Anet said we will be getting (actually they initially said the exact opposite), however it is something that has already been discussed to death on every GW fansite since the release of nightfall, with a huge majority of players involved in the discussions being strongly against Anet's previous decision not to allow 7 heroes and having a very strong desire and wish to be able to fully customise a whole party using the exact skill bars that the player chooses. This has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to make the game easier, or play with an 'I win' button, it is simply that throughout the history of RPGs, having full party control in games with many skills and abilities is an extremely fun and enjoyable mechanic for many many fans of these kinds of games. Most players simply want to be able to choose and customise their whole party, and play with the skillbars and class combinations that they choose themselves, rather than being limited to the poor and unsynergetic henchmen bars, or an even worse pug players bar.

DRGN · Oct 07, 2010, 12:31 AM // 00:31

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Originally Posted by Aba

But w.e call me a fool and a idiot, but i think any GW player that needs or wants is having problems with PvE . but thats my 2 cents, your entitled to yours im entitled to mine.

That's nice dear. Your opinion would be more credible, though, if you based it on...anything. Instead, you just call people who disagree with you shitters and try to act as though older players have a monolithic opinion. Really, you and a few other people in this thread need to stop trying to speak for the "old" players. You don't represent all of us, and certainly not me.

You also stop pretending as though every single person you've talked to is in total agreement with you. I've met people opposed to 7 heroes, but I've also talked to a great many that are actually in favor of it. You're going to have trouble finding a full team for a lot of things outside a guild, and news flash, there's no guild in existence that will always want to do exactly what you want to do exactly when you want to do it.

You want a harder game? That's lovely. That would require things like halfway decent enemy AI that can use skills properly and don't use updated skills the same way they used the version of three years ago. The only "difficulty" in PvE is fake difficulty. And if you can tell us we suck and should go play another game, then I can tell you that if you want REAL difficulty, go PvP(although there's plenty of people that will tell you HA is like PvE but that's another story, lol).

There's only one other thing in this post that needs to be addressed:

Quote:

and what you new players fail to realize (dunno if you are one but im saying to everyone) That we all did it before you with heros and henchies, why should your experience be any different?
whats stopping you from using henchies????? we all did........they work fine.So using the old....PUG is dead thing doesnt fit for me. heros and henchies are fine right now what is stopping your from doing that

Yeah, I got by with just henchmen in the past. How is this relevant in any way, shape or form? You sound like the grandpa from the Rugrats who used to talk about how he "walked fifteeeeeen miles in the snow" for everything. It makes no difference whatsoever who things were done in the past. And if you really want to, you could still play this game with just henchmen, so how about you go do that instead of lecturing people?

Aba · Oct 07, 2010, 02:12 AM // 02:12

DRGN nice attempt.
Anyways sorry to all if I came off as a dick, I have been told I write like a smart ass....
ok,I was not trying to come off as monolithic I was just simplely stating My opinion.
That the Majority of players Ive(ME,Not you) talked to think its a joke and not needed LEMME TYPE IN CAPS THAT THIS IS NOT EVERYONE......and to the comment about everyone in game ive talked to agrees well yes sorry to say,
yes everyone in game Ive talked to thinks so.......(my ally, local chat is off for a reason)
Anyways I guess its just me but this whole beg on a forum till you get what you want has gone so over bored over the years, and people take it way to far. I guess thats why I dissagree with the heros so much. Well besides the fact in my opinion there not needed at all. But again, im in tilted to my opinion and you yours.
And henchemen is relevent there DRGN ol buddy......because like I stated that the entire game is Hero/Henchable.......so the arguement that PUG'n is dead/cant get groups made,so we deserve 7 heros, is in my opinion not valid.
That is why I used "grandpa rugrat" as you so perfectly put it

bhavv · Oct 07, 2010, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

That the Majority of players Ive(ME,Not you) talked to think its a joke

yes everyone in game Ive talked to thinks so.......(my ally, local chat is off for a reason)

And how many is your 'majority of players' asked? Like maybe 3-5 people ingame which says absolutely nothing? If your ally / local chat is off, then you really arent talking to a lot of GW players.

Quote:

Anyways I guess its just me but this whole beg on a forum till you get what you want has gone so over bored over the years, and people take it way to far. I guess thats why I dissagree with the heros so much.

Its not begging, its players who love the game so much wishing for it to be even better. Sometimes, the players do manage to come up with great ideas and suggestion, and these even manage to make it into the game eventually.

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Originally Posted by Aba

because like I stated that the entire game is Hero/Henchable.......

No, actually it isnt. FoW / UW / DoA / Urgoz / Deep are NOT Hero/Henchable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aba

Well besides the fact in my opinion there not needed at all. But again, im in tilted to my opinion and you yours.

Disagree all you like, but the fact is that Anet themselves decided to put heroes into the game in the first place, this was not a player request, and it allowed the game the sell more copies and keep a lot of people interested who enjoyed solo play.

Quote:

so the arguement that PUG'n is dead/cant get groups made,so we deserve 7 heros, is in my opinion not valid

No, you are right that it isnt valid, because if it was we would have had 7 hero parties made available about halfway through the time that Factions was released. Pugs have been dead for what seems like forever now, I havnt seen anyone pugging anymore at all. Most of the pro players solo PVE, and then go to PVP to play with other people.

However, there is nothing invalid about making suggestions to improve the quality of the solo experience, when that is exactly how most people play this game.

fireflyry · Oct 07, 2010, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldric

Me) In my opinion the Economy will suffer

You) Unless you can prove it I call bullshit.

Pretty simple really.

I freely admit I should have reinforced that my posts were based on little more than opinion and subjective experience.I have posted here long enough to know better and in that regard I apologise for any confusion of intent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I dont play games, online or offline to play with other players, I play them because they are games and meant to be fun and enjoyable.

Herein lies the problem imho.

I fully agree with your mantra but there are to many factors and game parameters in question to just say "If it's fun it's ok.".Tbh many of the repercussions may be fun initially, but the end result in terms of longevity and overall effect to game players, both casual and serious, can be major.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Oct 07, 2010, 11:44 PM // 23:44

i must reply to 1 point
if many people can and do the game hero/hench, then why would it be bad if they instead of hench use hero only? that way hench are for the ones bad at builds for their heroes and for the ones not having heroes (yet), and maybe someone likes to try to make a challenge by using hench only (in elona using just the required hero)

should they give us this, then everyone still plays their own ways, alone, with pugs, with friends, with guilds etc
also, we have much more to try out, now we have 3 heroes at a time to make good enough, then we have 7, would be much more fun

pugs arent dead, i know that, but just a few pugs are with good players, which can make it through parts, and most of the good player pugs.... have requirements, like you HAVE TO use a certain build they choose for you, or else they kick you until you got the skills for it, then you HAVE TO show certain titles/items/something else
some pugs require certain heroes

so, pugs arent dead, they just arent as nice as years ago, when people actually tried stuff together

1 of a 1000 of the pugs have good players, if you're lucky you find one, but try and get that luck
i had a pug once in a fire island mission, the last one, hell's precipice, they couldnt make it, and had 2 wipes, so they decided to "run" to the lich (which you cannot kill) near the portals and kill him

this was long ago, now most have either good guilds, or left the game
and i saw alot of people: damm, this game is boring so soon

GW needs something new, and the contents did a bit of good job, except that i saw my friends, who left gw, and they said: its not as fun as i thought (boring or annoying)

we got alot of gw players being active after we got heroes, now let us have more heroes, and the game may be active again

personally i dont care about uw,fow,doa etc, but i'd like to try builds in dungeons on NM, and then on HM
and if they enable full hero team on all places, i may actually try fow once, or more than once (as uw has too many mobs at the start already, i like to take it easy)

people ingame make the economy, heroes wont change anything, as farms go solo, mostly, and endchests may contain something valueable, but the more its worth, the less chance

wherever you use heroes, people will be happy, and those who dont like it, keep joining the people (friends, guilds or pugs) like they always did
it just gives everyone in gw the freedom and a choice how to play the game; like you did up until now, or try 7 heroes

so if they do it, we'll be free to choose how to play the game, yaaaayyyy

ps. sry i repeat some points, but i try to make my point, i hope it worked this time

Aba · Oct 08, 2010, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

i must reply to 1 point
if many people can and do the game hero/hench, then why would it be bad if they instead of hench use hero only?

Simple.
Heros were limited to 3 for a reason 7 would make any instance a calk walk compared to using 3 heros and the rest henchies.
You add another bunch of heros on there your going to be steam rolling into any instance with amazing speed and efficincy.
So you say all farmers go solo huh??
Well take a Shard of Orr run or any dungeon run...... if people make a 7 hero build that trumps the speed of shard of orr runners(or any other dungeon for that matter)
Your gonna see a abundance of people using that heroway build because itll be a easy chance at the end chest, something you can do quickly and easly by yourself and most efficient.
IE. everyone starts using this build driving down the price of bone dragon staff or whatever item you get from the Instance.
Now im not sayin this will happen im just giving one example of how 7 heros could impact the game.